Words by Andrea Gombalová

Jenny Schlenzka on Marina Abramović: “This Is Bigger Than the Body”

Bodies press against the ground. Hands move in slow, deliberate rhythms. Voices rise somewhere between ritual and performance. At Gropius Bau, Balkan Erotic Epic does not stage sexuality as spectacle, but as a primal life force, something that moves through everything. It is a vision of the erotic that goes far beyond the individual: a force connecting life and death, the self and the cosmos. In Abramović’s work, the body becomes a vessel for the spiritual, the political, and the ecological. It is a powerful, almost elemental show that Marina Abramović, one of the most influential performance artists of our time, brings to Berlin. Drawing on the folklore of the Balkans, the region where she grew up. The exhibition weaves together film, sculpture, and live performance, bringing together decades of her exploration of ritual, eroticism, death, and the body as a site of resistance. Curated by two women - Agnes Gryczkowska a curator and historian and Jenny Schlenzka, director of Gropius Bau the exhibition is shaped by a distinct dynamic. We spoke with Jenny about how this collaboration unfolded.

Marina Abramović, Women Massaging Breasts aus der Serie Balkan Erotic Epic, C-Print, 2005, Serbia © Marina Abramović, Courtesy der Marina Abramović Archives / VG Bild-Kunst, Bonn 2026

Andrea Gombalová: How did your connection with Marina Abramović come about, and what were the earliest ideas or questions that shaped this project?

Jenny Schlenzka: I’ve known Marina for a long time. In fact, I think she was one of the first performance artists I ever saw live in New York. Later, when I was working at the Museum of Modern Art as a young assistant curator, I had the chance to get to know her.

We started talking back then about how to bring performance into the museum, as she played a big role in that. We stayed in touch over the years, sending Christmas cards and running into each other from time to time.

Then this project, “Balkan Erotic Epic,” came along. Gropius Bau is part of the Berliner Festspiele, and they co-commissioned the performance version that premiered in Manchester last November and will come to Berlin in October.

I visited Marina in January and asked if she would be interested in doing an exhibition focused on the erotic in her work. I had seen the concept of the performance, and I felt strongly that many of the themes it explores have been present in her practice for the past 50 years. So I suggested creating an exhibition that brings those threads together, and she immediately responded to the idea.

You brought Agnes Gryczkowska on board as a co-curator for this exhibition. What made her the right person to collaborate with?

Agnes is someone who is deeply interested in ritual and performance, especially in relation to the erotic and eroticism. I’ve always been drawn to her aesthetic, and I felt it was important to include a perspective from Eastern Europe. Agnes is from Poland, which is not the Balkans, and of course there are many differences, but it still felt meaningful to have someone involved who understands that context on a deeper level.

Tito's Funeral aus der Serie Balkan Erotic Epic, Peformance Dokumentation, Factory International, 2025, Manchester, UK © Marina Abramović, Courtesy der Marina Abramović Archives / VG Bild-Kunst, Bonn 2026, Foto: Marco Anelli

How would you describe the dynamic between the three of you in bringing this exhibition to life?

It was a very interesting dynamic. Agnes came in with these larger theoretical ideas, while Marina was mainly focused on developing new work. One of the biggest discussions we had was about whether to include older pieces. At a certain point, Marina only wanted to show new works from the Balkan Erotic Epic series.

We spent a few days together at her house upstate, working and talking things through. The turning point came when we decided to focus on Balkan Erotic Epic, but then began looking at earlier works she had made. It became clear that many of them were already directly connected to the same themes. From that moment on, everything started to fall into place much more easily.

What was special about having three women realize this project together? How does that manifest itself in the exhibition?

There was definitely a strong female energy throughout the process, and I hope that comes through in the exhibition. Agnes was also pregnant at the time, which added another layer to the experience.

There are a lot of great artists, but there are only so few who transform the idea of what art is and what art can be and Marina is definitely one of them.

What does Marina mean to you as an artist, and what surprised you about her despite all your prior research?

I often think back to when I became the first curator for performance at the Museum of Modern Art. At that time, many people in the art world – including critics and curators – didn’t really understand what performance art was, and some even questioned whether it was art at all. Marina Abramović, especially through her exhibition at MoMA, changed that in a lasting way. Of course, many artists contributed to that shift, but she was a pivotal figure.

You can still see that impact today at Gropius Bau. One of her greatest strengths is her ability to reach a wide audience. If you walk through the galleries now, you see people from 16 to 80, from all kinds of backgrounds.

I feel very lucky to have known her for such a long time. She is one of the most honest, strong, and at the same time vulnerable people I’ve ever met, and I deeply admire that. I don’t know anyone else quite like her. And she’s also very funny.

Marina Abramović, Balkan Erotic Epic, Multikanal-Videoinstallation, 2005, Serbia © Marina Abramović, Courtesy der Marina Abramović Archives / VG Bild-Kunst, Bonn 2026

Marina is now 79,  how do you experience her at this stage of her life, and what feels important to her right now?

With this exhibition, Marina is really addressing her own sense of the erotic and how it connects to her upbringing in the former Yugoslavia, to the rituals she experienced through her grandmother, and also to her own mortality, which becomes the final chapter of the show.

She has said that she couldn’t have made this work 20 years ago – that it required a certain age, a different level of awareness, and a deeper connection to herself. That, in itself, feels very powerful. In that sense, she also becomes a kind of role model.

“Balkan Erotic” is her first major solo exhibition in Berlin since the 1990s. Can you tell me about the earlier one, and in what ways the current exhibition differs in attitude, or perhaps echoes it?

In the 1990s, she was present in almost all of her works, often performing them live herself. Over time, she came to realize that she doesn’t necessarily have to be physically present for the work to carry its energy and meaning. That shift hasn’t been easy, but at the same time, she seems genuinely happy to see that the work can still resonate without her being there.

How do you balance an artist’s vision, especially someone as iconic as Marina with your own curatorial perspective?

At Gropius Bau, we pride ourselves on being artist-centric. The artist’s vision and wishes are always at the center. At the same time, we are making an exhibition, so we have to ensure that it is accessible to the public. That inevitably led to some disagreements but they were always open and fair.

As I mentioned earlier, we really insisted on including historical works. There were also certain things Marina wanted that I didn’t necessarily agree with, but I always trust the artist to know better than I do. And in many cases, she was right, so I’m glad I listened to her.

Did your understanding of her work change throughout the process?

I was one of many people who fell in love with her early work. Over time, I’ve come to deeply appreciate her later works as well. I think Dragon Head and Spirit Cooking are two of the strongest rooms in the entire exhibition. I didn’t fully see that before – how consistently strong her work has been. It gave me a completely new appreciation, especially for those pieces.

Did the space of Gropius Bau alter the way certain works function or are perceived?

Yes, that is true for most exhibitions. We are very fortunate to work within such remarkable architecture. The space and the artworks begin to enter into a dialogue with one another, and I am very pleased with how we are presenting Dragon Head and Nude with Skeleton. The exhibition would look completely different in another setting – and I think that is exactly what makes it so special.

What kind of experience do you hope this exhibition creates for visitors?

I think people feel more alive and more connected – and that’s exactly what the exhibition does. Of course, not everyone responds to it in the same way; some people don’t like it at all. But that, too, is part of its success.

It really speaks to what it means to be human right now.

Marina Abramović, Women Massaging Breasts I aus der Serie Balkan Erotic Epic, C-Print, 2005, Serbien © Marina Abramović, Courtesy der Marina Abramović Archives / VG Bild-Kunst, Bonn 2026

Eroticism is a central force in this exhibition, in a time when sexuality is so heavily debated that we seem to be losing a more instinctive connection to it. What do you think Marina is reminding us of right now?

I can share Marina’s answer, and I agree with her. Our understanding of what the erotic or eroticism is can be quite limited. We immediately tend to associate it with pornography or reproduction.

Marina’s thesis is that we all have erotic energy. It flows through us no matter if we’re aware of it or not. We need to give it a form or expression because if we don’t we live an impoverished lives.

For example, in the exhibition, eroticism is not something that necessarily happens between two individuals. It can be collective, it can emerge within a group, but it can also exist between humans and nature, or between humans and the universe. It becomes a kind of life force that is larger than ourselves. I don’t think our culture always acknowledges that.

There is always a certain anticipation around a Marina Abramović exhibition. Why do you think her work has such a strong pull,  even for people who might not usually engage with contemporary art?

I think, ultimately, people instinctively feel that she is honest and not hiding anything. We all have a desire to be like that, but most of us aren’t. Marina would be the first to say that it’s not an easy way to move through the world, but it is incredibly compelling. And it stands in strong contrast to how we usually navigate life.

Jenny Schlenzka

Presented by the Berliner Festspiele on the occasion of her 75th anniversary, “Balkan Erotic Epic” unfolds in two parts: following the exhibition at Gropius Bau, a new large-scale stage production will premiere in October 2026, opening the Performing Arts Season at the Haus der Berliner Festspiele.

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