On Fateful Encounters and Pursuing a Dream: In Conversation with PAMELA

Josh: I would say we’re modern but nostalgic. We take a lot of care in what we do but we’re also very playful. What would you add to that, Sarah? 

Sarah: Yeah, like we’re very considered, yet don’t take ourselves too seriously – besides the obvious fact that we’re an indie pop duo. I just want to make music that makes people feel good. 

Sarah: I would probably say the song that seems to be the most memorable to me is the one that’s popping off the most, which is BETTER THAN BEFORE. The actual topic of the song is heartbreak, yet we play against that, the sound is joyful and happy. It’s just got a really catchy chorus, it’s like a call and response with both of our voices, which is a very Pamela sound. 

Josh: I think it’s a better access point to the feeling, ironically. When you ask a question not like What’s the saddest thing that ever happened to you, but, When was the last time you felt really seen by somebody? Normally, that’s when you get quite emotional. I think music is really similar, because it makes you open your heart. When the feeling behind that is something personal like heartbreak, it’s almost an easier way of connecting to that feeling. 

Sarah: It’s also fun to just play against what’s expected.

Sarah: I have two different answers for this. I was kind of already in the entertainment industry. I was working in fashion and I was loving it, but I also kind of realised that there’s only so much storytelling that you can do through clothes and essentially what you look like. Because I was modelling and working with brands and I just came to this realisation that what I look like is actually the least interesting thing about me. When I met Josh I was able to convey stories and feelings and experiences through music, just the depth is what really drew me into it, wanting to continue to make music. And then besides the fact that Josh is one of my best friends and we get to do this together and travel the world together and connect with our audiences. What more could you dream of as an artist? 

Josh: I mean, I always made music, always will, but there was something unforgettable that happened when Sarah and I first decided to sit down and write a song together. We work really, really hard in this band, but at the same time, there’s this ease about Pamela where it feels like like we’re in this current, like a flow. From when we wrote that first song, it was really so natural and instinctual the way it came together. Then the second song, then the first show we played together, now our first tour; it’s all felt like a really organic growth and such a joy to be on this part of this thing that really feels like it’s meant to be here in a way.

Sarah: Absolutely not. There was no deciding from the beginning. In fact, we were writing songs together for years before we decided to start a band. We actually met as housemates. So Josh moved in to a house that I was living in and he would always be kind of noodling on his guitar in the living room. One day I said, we should write a song. And then we did, and it was really magical and we loved spending our time doing that so we just didn’t stop. Even when we weren’t living together anymore, we would constantly meet up to continue writing music because it was something that we loved to do. One day we’d realized that none of our friends or our family had ever heard our music before, so we decided to perform on stage one day.

I think that night was the official night Pamela was born because all of our friends and family were grabbing us and shaking us and telling us you guys have to do this!!. So yeah, we really haven’t stopped writing music since that moment. 

Josh: Pamela apparently means something sweet, which we did not know at the time. We just liked the sound of it, we liked the way it looked written down. And like Sarah was saying, because we genuinely had no intention of doing anything with the band, the name was not something we thought about too much. It was just like “yeah, sounds good”, but now I can’t imagine it being anything else. 

Sarah: It’s basically a placeholder name that ended up just sticking.

Josh: Yes, we learned that in Mexico. Someone looked it up and we found out that it apparently means something sweet.

Josh: Yes. I never grew out of that dream. To me, it’s just ridiculous that I’m actually, in a way, doing it. It just seems crazy.

Sarah: For me, it’s never something that I thought I would pursue. I don’t know, I just never wanted to do it by myself anyways. But when Josh came along, it just felt like the perfect scenario, the stars were aligning, we had just met each other and it meant that we got to do it together. Josh had written songs before and he also had an album before, but when we had met, he was ready to give up on music. So it was just this beautiful synergy when we both came together and made music that we both love, that is the reason we’re here too.

Josh: It really can’t be over-emphasized just how weird it feels. When I moved to Sydney, only then we met and I literally knew only one person there. He just happened to be a friend of Sarah and I was looking for a place to stay just near the university I was studying in. That’s where Sarah lived, so it was just really so unlikely.

Josh: Yeah, it was just bizarre.

Sarah: Fate! That sounds really beautiful.

Josh: The advice I always give is to finish, to make sure you’re finishing songs. Because I do think there’s a lot of really talented artists out there who have half done things, which you just can’t do anything with. If you can just make sure that you’re finishing stuff, it makes your life so much easier when it comes to taking the next steps after that: playing it to people, or making a video or recording it.

Sarah: If you truly love your music, that is all that matters. Just keep believing in yourself, even if that means being a little bit delusional. Being delusional has never failed me personally. You have to be obsessed with what you do, you just really have to have this love for what you do and the rest will be easy.

Sarah: I have always had a background in creative direction and production. Before starting Pamela, I was an artist, like an exhibiting artist as well. So the concept of building a world for something to live in, was not strange for me. It’s just been so much fun being able to make music with Josh and work with him and creating a world together that we both love and that we see the music sitting in.

Josh: Obviously, previously making music helps. I think a more interesting one is, that I was briefly a lawyer before I did music, so I randomly read all of our agreements. That’s just like an unexpected thing that really helps because I’m sure a lot of people don’t really read all of these terms and conditions. I kind of enjoy reading the agreements.

Sarah: Just on that question as well. I don’t know if you already know this, but when Josh and I decided to film our first music video, we decided to produce it, direct it and edit it all ourselves out of necessity. Back then, we didn’t really know anyone else that wanted to do that. But we’re so glad that we did it that way because looking back, it was just such a fun experience. We realized that that’s exactly how we would like to continue working because it just means that we can really put our fingerprint on everything that we do. Not just the music, but the visual elements that bring people into our world. So it started off as a necessity, but now it’s just been the way that we love to work. 

Sarah: It starts with music and then it’s just like a feeling or an instinct that comes from that. We both love film and we love referencing them in all of our different music videos. In SKIN CONTACT we referenced Pulp Fiction and in CHAIN REACTION we referenced Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. But there is no specific process. It just starts with the song and from there, it’s all just instincts. 

Josh: There really is so much power and consistency. I really think, yes, ideas do kind of just come to you. But Sarah and I, we were just together a lot, writing together. It’s really hard to get an idea going without showing up and having the guitar and having a sing. So I would say a big, important pillar is to really make a habit of showing up and then the creativity can blow through you, which it feels like it does sometimes.

Sarah: Yes, absolutely. I also think that being present in your day-to-day life allows you to constantly play. Like listening to what people say, how they say things, listening to how you feel, noticing nature around you, the waves crashing and the birds and the bees. When you’re in that state of play is when you can come up with ideas to put in a song, to be creative.

Sarah: Absolutely, like where do we even begin? We’re constantly teaching each other things every day. Josh has helped me learn so much about the guitar, now I’m a much better guitar player than I was when we first started writing music together. Josh also has such a beautiful way with words in the studio and the way that he writes music is very inspiring to me. Just, just a lot.

Josh: Everything, cause I can’t imagine doing any of this stuff without the stuff before it happening, you know? It all starts with the two of us in the living room. I don’t think there’s anything that we’ve done that I could have done not as Pamela, do you know what I mean?

Josh: I have had the benefit of being a solo artist, and then being part of a band. It’s very different in a great way, to have a responsibility to somebody else in a creative space. There’s something unique about that because it’s really each of our jobs to help the other one shine and help the project shine, which is something that you don’t really experience outside of a creative partnership.

Sarah: There is a big music festival scene here. So that’s a lot of indie rock bands that we grew up going and listening to, and just going to bushdoofs. Bushdoofs are essentially a non-commercial, small production music festival that is in the bush. The reason why they call it a bushdoof is because if you’re standing far away, you just hear DOOF, DOOF, DOOF because it’s mostly dance music. So I think growing up going to rock country pop festivals, like Splendour in the Grass,  but then also going to bushdoofs where they predominantly play dance music, is what has shaped both my love for rock music and dance music. That definitely comes through in the studio for us.

Josh: I’ll also just add to that. I think Australians have really good taste in music. It’s actually crazy how many iconic bands have come out of Australia with it being such a small place. I don’t know why or how, but I think the average person in Australia has got great taste in music, they always listen to interesting things. And when that is your audience, it helps because you want to play them something that they like.

Josh: This isn’t exactly an answer to that question, but we once had this conversation when we were kind of talking about this and we said: Wouldn’t it be cool to make a song where one day in 30 years, while Pamela comes on and someone says to their kid: “Oh this was my favorite song when I was your age”. There’s something about that, about how long music can live. Yeah, that would be amazing.

Sarah: I would say that at our live shows it’s very important for us to show people a really good time. We want people to have fun at our shows, we want people to listen to our music and to feel good, that was kind of our mission statement. And to answer your question: We want to give people a sense of hope and a sense of joy.

Josh: What we’re doing right now is so fun and every day feels quite different to the day before. I feel like we’re growing every day, we’re improving every day and new exciting things are sort of happening every day. So I’m happy to take it one step at a time and just see what unfolds.

Sarah: We only released our EP about a month ago and since then we’ve played a couple of shows to full audiences of people that have so clearly connected with the music. They’re dancing, they’re singing with us and there truly is no better feeling than that as an artist – to know that your music is connecting with people and it’s touching them in some way. The only thing that I could want more is to continue connecting with the people that love our music and just being in rooms where we get to sing along with them. That is truly the best feeling.

Sarah: Scary as fuck. I never had played in front of a crowd before, so it was really scary for me. Josh?

Josh: It was a big party. I remember it was just a big party because it was our friends having a really good time.

Sarah: Just like all of our other music.

Josh: I like that, that’s a good answer!

Sarah: We’ve been writing music for four years now so we have all of this music and we only released an EP last month. So we have catalogs of music that we are just dying to share with people.