In Conversation with Jenny Schlenzka about Marina Abramović’s Balkan Erotic Epic

Jenny Schlenzka: I’ve known Marina Abramović for a long time. In fact, I think she was one of the first performance artists I ever saw live in New York. Later, when I was working at Museum of Modern Art as a young assistant curator, I had the chance to get to know her.

We started talking back then about how to bring performance into the museum, and she played a big role in that. We stayed in touch over the years, sending Christmas cards and running into each other from time to time.

Then this project, Balkan Erotic Epic came along. Gropius Bau is part of the Berliner Festspiele, and they co-commissioned the performance version that premiered in Manchester last November and will come to Berlin in October.

I visited Marina in January and asked if she would be interested in doing an exhibition focused on the erotic in her work. I had seen the concept of the performance, and I felt strongly that many of the themes it explores have been present in her practice for the past 50 years. So I suggested creating an exhibition that brings those threads together, and she immediately responded to the idea.

Agnes is someone who is very interested in ritual and performance, especially in the erotic and eroticism. I’ve always liked her aesthetic, and I felt it was important to include a perspective from Eastern Europe. Agnes is from Poland, which is not the Balkans and of course there are many differences, but I thought it mattered to have someone involved who understands that context a bit more.

It was a very interesting dynamic. Agnes came in with these larger theoretical ideas, while Marina was mainly focused on developing new work. One of the biggest discussions we had was about whether to include older pieces. At a certain point, Marina only wanted to show new works from the Balkan Erotic Epic series.

We spent a few days together at her house upstate, working and talking through it. The turning point came when we decided to focus on Balkan Erotic Epic, but then started looking at earlier works she had made. It became clear that many of them were already directly connected to the same themes. From that moment on, everything started to fall into place much more easily.

There was definitely a strong female energy throughout the process, and I hope that comes through in the exhibition. Agnes was also pregnant during that time, which added another layer to the experience.

I often think back to when I became the first curator for performance at Museum of Modern Art. At that time, many people in the art world, including critics and curators, didn’t really know what performance art was, and some even questioned whether it was art at all. Marina Abramović, especially through her exhibition at MoMA, changed that in a lasting way. Of course, many artists contributed to that shift, but she was a pivotal figure.

You can still see that impact now at Gropius Bau. One of her greatest strengths is her ability to reach a wide audience. If you walk through the galleries today, you see people from 16 to 80, from all kinds of backgrounds.

I feel very lucky to have known her for such a long time. She is one of the most honest, strong, and at the same time vulnerable people I’ve ever met, and I really admire that. I don’t know anyone else quite like her. And she’s also very funny.

In the 1990s, she was present in almost all of her works, often performing them live herself. Over time, she came to realize that she doesn’t necessarily have to be physically present for the work to carry its energy and meaning. That shift hasn’t been easy, but at the same time she seems genuinely happy to see that the work can still resonate without her being there.

We at Gropius Bau, pride ourselves on being artist-centric. The artist’s opinion and wish is always at the center. At the same time, we have to make an exhibition, we need to make sure the public can access it. So there were fights. But they were really open and fair. I said earlier, we really insisted on including historic work. There were certain things that she wanted, I didn’t necessarily agree with, but I always trust the artist to know better than me. In a lot of cases, she was right, so I’m glad I listened to her. 

I was one of many who is in love with her early work. I’ve come to really appreciate the older works. I think Dragon Head and Spirit Cooking are two of the strongest rooms in the whole exhibition. And I didn’t see that before, she actually consistently did good work. I found a new appreciation for those especially. 

Yes, that is pretty much the case with all exhibitions. We are really lucky to work with such fantastic architecture. The architecture and the work start entering into a dialogue, and I am quite content with how we are presenting Dragon Head or Nude with Skeleton. The show would look very different in another space. I think that is what makes it so special.

I think they feel more alive and more connected, and that is what the show does. Not for everybody of course, some people also don’t like it, but that is part of its success.

I can share Marina’s answer, and I agree with her. Our understanding of what erotic or eroticism is can be very limited. We immediately tend to think of pornography or reproduction.

For example, in the show, eroticism is not something that necessarily happens between two individuals. It can be collective, it can happen within a group, but it can also exist between humans and nature, or between humans and the universe. It becomes a kind of life force that is larger than ourselves. I don’t think our culture always acknowledges that.

I think ultimately people instinctively feel that she is honest and not hiding anything. We all have a desire to be like that, but most of us are not. Marina would be the first to say that it is not an easy way to navigate the world, but it is very attractive. And it is quite different from how we usually are in the world.